{"id":123,"date":"2023-07-06T16:58:54","date_gmt":"2023-07-06T16:58:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/proteanmed.com\/blog\/?p=123"},"modified":"2026-07-06T11:53:35","modified_gmt":"2026-07-06T11:53:35","slug":"interview-with-matt-young-president-nalto-co-founder-and-partner-of-all-star-healthcare-solutions","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/proteanmed.com\/blog\/interview-with-matt-young-president-nalto-co-founder-and-partner-of-all-star-healthcare-solutions\/","title":{"rendered":"Locum Tenens Explained: Building a Top Staffing Firm &amp; the 1099 Fight | The Protean Pulse Podcast"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<iframe data-testid=\"embed-iframe\" style=\"border-radius:12px\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/1SPyVFMfXHEmEtpVE9PW6J?utm_source=generator&#038;si=465e413866834df4\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameBorder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"\" allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<p>Matt Young was supposed to be a lawyer. A pre-law political science and criminology student in western Massachusetts, he had a talented attorney for a brother, an acceptance into the police academy, and a year to kill before it started. Then a friend made him an unusual pitch: come be \u201ca sports agent for doctors.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Two decades later, Young is co-founder and managing partner of All Star Healthcare Solutions, a Deerfield Beach, Florida firm with roughly 340 internal employees serving all 50 states \u2014 and, as president of NALTO (the National Association of Locum Tenens Organizations), one of the industry\u2019s leading voices on Capitol Hill. On this episode of The Protean Pulse Podcast, he sat down with host Rajee Hari to talk about the locum tenens staffing industry from every angle: builder, operator, and advocate.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>An Industry Where \u201cEverybody Wins\u201d<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Ask Young to explain locum tenens and he starts with the stakes. More than 50,000 physicians \u2014 before counting NPs, PAs, and CRNAs \u2014 now provide temporary care across the country, accounting for over a million patient interactions a year. And most of that care isn\u2019t happening in Beverly Hills.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cWe\u2019re really talking about the rural and underserved areas,\u201d he says, where patients can wait three months to see a primary care physician, and where entire counties operate without a single active OBGYN.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s what fuels his passion for the model. Hospitals keep ORs open. Physicians choose their contracts, negotiate their rates, and stay in the workforce longer \u2014 including semi-retired doctors who\u2019ll work 20 weeks a year but not 45. Patients get care that otherwise wouldn\u2019t exist. \u201cIt\u2019s one of those rare situations where everybody wins,\u201d Young says.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>The Myth That Wouldn\u2019t Survive the Data<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Early in Young\u2019s career, locum physicians carried a stigma: the belief that doctors choosing temporary work were somehow substandard. That theory, he says, has been debunked. Clinical studies have shown patient outcomes from locum physicians are equal or better \u2014 at equal and sometimes lower cost, once you account for the full expense of a permanent employee.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other great change over 20 years? The free flow of information. Where recruiters once had to explain that the industry even existed, physicians now come looking \u2014 a trend Rajee Hari has seen firsthand at Protean Med, with more doctors proactively asking for 1099 locum opportunities since COVID. Young agrees: physicians want to take care of patients, not sit on committees or wrestle with credentialing. \u201cAll they need to do is show up, take care of the patients, and go home.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Building From Zero: Lessons From Two Startups<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Young helped build his first locum firm, Onyx M.D. in Denver, at age 26 \u2014 \u201cI don\u2019t know who\u2019s more screwed, these people or me,\u201d he remembers telling his mother after day one. The lesson that stuck: \u201cThe real key is embracing what you know you don\u2019t know.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>At All Star, which he co-founded with Keith and Craig Shattuck in late 2010, that humility hardened into operating principles:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ul>\n<li><strong>Do what you say you\u2019re going to do.<\/strong> With no budget for brand-building, reliability <em>is<\/em> the brand \u2014 on both the provider and client side.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Reinvest relentlessly.<\/strong> \u201cYou can be a lifestyle organization or you can be a growth organization. You can\u2019t be both. So if you want to drive a Ferrari after being in business for two years, your company\u2019s never gonna grow.\u201d<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Fund the hockey stick before it happens.<\/strong> Staffing growth means paying physicians on time, every time. Miss payroll by even a few days and the goodwill is gone \u2014 \u201cthey\u2019re never coming back.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>The Landmines That Sink New Agencies<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>For small firms \u2014 like Protean Med, as Hari candidly notes \u2014 Young offers a field guide to what he calls the $100,000 mistakes:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<ol>\n<li><strong>Bad contracts.<\/strong> Indemnification language and insurance requirements imported from W-2 nurse staffing don\u2019t belong in locum agreements. Sometimes walking away is the win.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Letting physicians carry their own malpractice.<\/strong> Your client contract warrants that coverage exists. If a provider lapses \u2014 or never buys tail coverage on a claim that can surface 17 years later in OB \u2014 the lawsuit names <em>you<\/em>.<\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Outgrowing your funding.<\/strong> Margins have tightened, VMS fees and regulatory costs have grown, and it\u2019s more expensive to book a day than ever.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n\n\n\n<p>His broader advice for staying competitive as a small player: use NALTO. Monthly free training seminars, risk management guidance, industry relationships, and national lobbying \u2014 \u201cyou\u2019ll make 50, 100 times\u201d the dues back, he argues.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>The Fight to Keep Physicians 1099<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Young\u2019s proudest work may be legislative. When policies like California\u2019s AB5 and the proposed PRO Act threatened to reclassify independent contractors as employees, NALTO retained a DC lobbying firm and went to work. The result: 30 of 50 U.S. senators now know what locum tenens is, and H.R. 7881 \u2014 a bill NALTO helped write \u2014 was introduced with bipartisan support.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The stakes, as Young frames them: force locum physicians into W-2 status and the available workforce could be cut in half or worse, with higher costs for hospitals and fewer providers for the communities that need them most. Physicians themselves are joining NALTO on Capitol Hill to make the case. His ask takes 30 seconds: visit <strong>nalto.org\/action<\/strong>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Rolls-Royce Economics and the AI Question<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>On M&amp;A, Young is blunt: private equity and strategic buyers have a heavy appetite for profitable locum firms, and he doesn\u2019t see it slowing. \u201cThis is the Rolls-Royce of staffing,\u201d he says \u2014 physicians are both socially critical and revenue-producing, and the physician shortage projected by 2035\u20132040 only widens the supply-demand gap.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And AI? A reallocation, not a revolution. Pattern-recognition tools may transform fields like radiology and automate staffing busywork, but the relationships \u2014 the weddings attended, the decades-long friendships with providers \u2014 stay human. \u201cI don\u2019t think anything will ever substitute the human interaction piece.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>The Takeaway<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>From accidental recruiter to industry president, Matt Young\u2019s story doubles as a thesis: locum tenens staffing works because the incentives align \u2014 for physicians, hospitals, agencies, and above all, patients. Protecting that alignment is now the industry\u2019s biggest job.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u270a <strong>Protect physician independence:<\/strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nalto.org\/action\"> nalto.org\/action<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (00:00):<\/strong> Hey everyone, welcome to Protean Pulse, a healthcare podcast from Protean Med. I\u2019m Rajee Hari, President and CEO of Protean Med, a healthcare staffing and recruiting solution provider based out of The Woodlands, Texas. I have a charming, dynamic, high-energy, successful veteran in the locum tenens industry: Mr. Matt Young. He is the co-founder and partner of All Star Healthcare Solutions, located in Deerfield Beach, Florida.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He had plans of pursuing a career in law \u2014 and I don\u2019t know what happened and how his life turned around \u2014 but he came into the locum tenens industry. We would like to pick his brain and learn more about him, his knowledge, and his viewpoint on the industry. We are excited to welcome you, Matt. Welcome to the podcast.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (00:48):<\/strong> Thank you so much. It\u2019s always a pleasure to see you, and thanks for having me on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (00:52):<\/strong> Absolutely, Matt. You can say that you have been there and seen that for pretty much everything in the locum industry \u2014 from hiring and training, you\u2019ve done operations, sales, marketing, the IT department, and of course now you\u2019re in a leadership position. Can you share a little bit about your background and how your career has shaped you thus far?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (01:13):<\/strong> Sure. And I don\u2019t know who the charming person is \u2014 that must be the person coming on after me \u2014 but thank you for those kind words. I\u2019ve spent almost two decades now in the locum tenens staffing industry. I got my start by accident, a little bit. As you mentioned in the introduction, I was a pre-law political science major in criminology at a small university in western Massachusetts.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I met a couple of great mentors \u2014 we all have these forks in our lives where we meet people and they make tremendous impacts. I had a couple of professors that saw something in me I guess I didn\u2019t see in myself, and I\u2019m very grateful for that to this day. I became a little bit of a late-developing student-slash-nerd, I suppose you could say. My brother is a very talented attorney who now works for the GAO in DC, and I thought that was the route I wanted to take \u2014 but I didn\u2019t want to take it in the Northeast. So I moved to Florida right after my undergraduate degrees.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I had a really close friend \u2014 my now business partner, Keith Shattuck; he is the chairman of our board at All Star Healthcare Solutions. He was one of only two people I knew in the entire state of Florida when I moved. I was looking through my options for grad school, and I had been accepted into the police academy, believe it or not. I would have made an awful police officer \u2014 God bless our men and women that are LEOs; I don\u2019t know how well I would have done. What was funny about it was I had about a year to wait before I would enter the academy. And again, a gentleman who I respect and love dearly said, \u201cHey, why don\u2019t you try this niche? I\u2019m doing this work and I\u2019m like a sports agent for doctors. There are these talented people that are traveling all over the country and saving lives, and I\u2019m making a little bit of money doing it. I think you\u2019d be good at it.\u201d And I said, well \u2014 a job with benefits, dealing with highly intelligent people, and I\u2019ve got a year to kill anyway. Okay, great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The more I got into the industry, the better I became at it. I made a lot of close relationships. And right as I was about to enter that world of law, law enforcement, and graduate school, the more I really wanted to stay within this industry. That\u2019s how I got involved.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The next big thing that happened to me was a physician out of California that I had recruited for an anesthesiology position was building a locum tenens firm on his own, starting it from scratch. I think I was 26 \u2014 didn\u2019t know a thing about building a company, didn\u2019t know a thing about Denver, Colorado \u2014 but I had a really great relationship with them, and I decided to help a company come up from the ground. That was my first experience of building an organization, and I\u2019m very proud of my time there. I spent a little over five years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>They were building up operations in Texas, and I felt like Florida\u2019s always been my home. That led me to going back with my original close friend from the Massachusetts days, and I co-founded the locums organization with Craig and Keith Shattuck, who now sit on our board of directors. They had a very successful perm placement business, and my expertise really came in the operations of the locums end of things. We\u2019ve continued to operate that profitable perm end of the spectrum, but the expertise I was able to lend \u2014 and really, the great team around us \u2014 was on the locum end. That\u2019s how I ended up with All Star. I think that was late 2010, 2011. It\u2019s been a wonderful ride. I\u2019ve met a lot of great people and worked with a lot of great HCOs and physicians nationwide. I hope that answered your question, but that\u2019s the condensed version of how I ended up here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (05:13):<\/strong> This is mind-boggling for me. You decide to take a one-year break, you had a choice between law and law enforcement, and then you enter the locums field and take off in that direction. You help out as an entrepreneur, pretty much with a crisis, and then you start out with All Star and you have taken it to a new level, I should say. I have been reading up a lot about All Star \u2014 I\u2019m pretty new to the field as well \u2014 and it\u2019s quite inspiring to hear your story, for sure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So with this 20-plus years of experience in the locum space, what are the key insights or lessons you have learned about the industry that have shaped you, your life, and your approach to providing these staffing solutions? What do you think has been the growth in the industry, and how has your growth been affected by it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (06:13):<\/strong> I could talk for two hours about that one question \u2014 it\u2019s a great question. The first time you meet somebody and you say, \u201cWell, I\u2019m in staffing,\u201d they say, \u201cWhat kind of staffing?\u201d And you say, \u201cLocum tenens.\u201d And they\u2019re like, \u201cLocal tennis? What\u2019s that?\u201d So you have to explain what it is. And I know we\u2019ll get to NALTO and the lobbying that we do a little bit later on, but it\u2019s amazing \u2014 there are now over 50,000 physicians alone, never mind NPs, PAs, and CRNAs, that provide this temporary care all over the country.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I know you know this as well as I do, but most of this care is not being given in Beverly Hills or downtown Miami. On occasion it\u2019s done in places like that, but we\u2019re really talking about the rural and underserved areas, where some of these people across our great country are waiting three months to see a primary care physician. Or, God forbid, they need specialty care or some type of surgical procedure \u2014 or an OBGYN. How many counties in our country are without an active OBGYN servicing a population?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So whenever I talk about the industry \u2014 and obviously I\u2019m very passionate about it \u2014 not only has it really given me the ability to earn a living and be surrounded by amazing people, but when I put my head on the pillow at night, there\u2019s something uniquely, intrinsically satisfying about finding somebody a job, number one. Not that they need me \u2014 they could find one without me. But the reality is, if I can put them in positions to make the most impact \u2014 and yes, earn a living at the same time, and help grow my own organization as well \u2014 it\u2019s one of those rare situations where everybody wins.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And what I mean by everybody: if a healthcare organization doesn\u2019t have a physician in a particular place, they have to, God forbid, close down an OR \u2014 there are a lot of these scenarios that are completely undesirable, to put it lightly. There are a lot of complexities that come with these placements, but the bottom line is, if we can place these folks where they\u2019re needed, the organization \u2014 a company like All Star \u2014 we certainly win. The provider wins; the physician wins, because they\u2019re providing care, perhaps earning some extra money while they\u2019re traveling the country, keeping their skills sharp. Let\u2019s say it\u2019s someone coming out of retirement and they don\u2019t want to work 40, 45 weeks a year, but they\u2019ll work 20 \u2014 we want to keep that physician in the workforce. No one wins if that physician retires early and then goes and fishes for the next 25, 30 years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then really the most important aspect of it: the patients and the communities win. Because right now \u2014 and COVID taught us this, obviously, going through the pandemic \u2014 we have a nation of folks that really are in dire need of preventative care, not to mention when things arise that are more urgent. We want to be a part of that solution. So when people ask where I get my passion from \u2014 and one of the reasons I got involved with NALTO, as an example, donating time to do that \u2014 it\u2019s because I want to see the industry continue to flourish for all those reasons. It\u2019s one of those few industries where everybody wins, if that makes sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (09:33):<\/strong> Yeah. So have you seen a change in the industry? Have you seen a trend over the past 20 years \u2014 and what are those changes?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (09:40):<\/strong> First and foremost, number one is really the internet, which has changed all business. There\u2019s a free flow of information that wasn\u2019t there prior. I\u2019m going to say it\u2019s 95% good \u2014 you\u2019re going to get five percent bad of anything. But the reality is, in the beginning, you used to call some providers and they wouldn\u2019t even know the industry existed. And some clients weren\u2019t really on the up and up. There was this belief that physicians who chose to do this type of work were substandard.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We now know for a fact \u2014 and there have been clinical studies that have proven this \u2014 that patient outcomes, number one, and number two, cost: the patient outcomes are actually equal or better, and the cost is equal and sometimes less. Now, some people will say, \u201cWell, you\u2019re paying somebody a day rate that\u2019s more than if you had a permanent position there.\u201d Sometimes, sure. But the reality is you have to build in a lot of other costs with an employee. Whereas a 1099 that\u2019s choosing to be a 1099, working in multiple places \u2014 they are accepting the contracts that they choose to and not accepting others. It\u2019s been proven over time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So if you asked me the greatest difference: it\u2019s the free flow of information. And it\u2019s also that the care \u2014 maybe 25 years ago, people said it was substandard. I haven\u2019t read a study to prove that, but let\u2019s even accept it as a possibility. That whole theory has been debunked. There have been several case studies proving the two items I just said: equal or lower cost, and equal or greater patient outcomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (11:24):<\/strong> Interesting. I also feel that locums has become very popular, especially after the COVID situation. What I see is many of them don\u2019t want to take up a perm job \u2014 they\u2019re okay with doing 1099. I see a lot of doctors coming to me and saying, \u201cHey, if you have a locum opportunity, let me know, because I\u2019m ready to go 1099 moving forward.\u201d I think that is a huge trend I have seen post-COVID. I\u2019m not sure if you have seen that as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (11:52):<\/strong> I think that\u2019s an important point, because early in my career, all I did was talk to physicians \u2014 I got involved on the contract side, the hospital and HCO side, later on. The conversations I used to have: \u201cMatt, you know what I want to do? I get joy out of taking care of patients. That\u2019s what I like.\u201d Instead \u2014 and you would know more about this than I would, perhaps \u2014 the reality of working within an HCO is: \u201cI need you on this committee.\u201d And then there\u2019s maintaining your own malpractice, and all these other ancillary things taking place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The beauty of locum tenens is: I can work as much or as little as I want. I can negotiate my own rate. I know the key things \u2014 med mal, travel, all my logistics \u2014 are taken care of. Licensing, credentialing, all the things that are annoying. That\u2019s part of what we do as agencies: we want to alleviate that friction and allow these physicians and providers to go to these areas of great need. All they need to do is show up, take care of the patients, and go home. In my experience, for the majority of the physicians, that\u2019s what they really wanted to do. So I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think that\u2019s a big part of it \u2014 and a big part of the growth of the industry overall, both pre-COVID and especially post-COVID.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (13:16):<\/strong> Absolutely. Correct me if I\u2019m wrong \u2014 your expertise is building an organization from the ground up, right? When you were 26 and started this ground-up organization with a physician, what were the challenges you faced, and what are the learning points you took home and implemented at All Star that helped the organization become better and more robust compared to the first time around?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (13:44):<\/strong> I\u2019m not making light of it, but I remember the first day I worked with my colleagues out in Denver \u2014 the firm name was Onyx M.D.; I\u2019m very proud of the work we did there, and they\u2019re now a part of Health Carousel down the line. I remember it was a long day, like a 15-hour day, and we were trying to figure out how to get that plane off the runway. And I remember calling my mom \u2014 I had never been to Denver; it was the first time I\u2019d ever been there \u2014 and I said, \u201cI don\u2019t know who\u2019s more screwed, these people or me. Because I think they think I know more than I do, and I thought they were further along than they are.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But as with all great companies \u2014 even Apple started in the garage, right? You get all these stories of entrepreneurs that, not fake it till they make it, but through brute force say: okay, I have this level of expertise. I think the real key is embracing what you know you don\u2019t know \u2014 that\u2019s very Socratic, I believe. I went out there with this talented group of people and said: okay, here\u2019s what we know and here\u2019s what we don\u2019t know. But do we know enough to create a contract, find a physician, put a deal together, send them, and get the proper malpractice and the proper logistics? Well, we can do that. Okay, let\u2019s do that 25 times. And as we\u2019re doing that, we\u2019re going to try the best we can \u2014 because the problems of a zero-to-five-employee organization pale in comparison to when it\u2019s a hundred people, or two hundred, or five hundred.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (15:14):<\/strong> Tell me about it. I\u2019m in that zero to five, right? So I know the pain point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (15:18):<\/strong> So you\u2019re basically breaking rocks out there, trying to make a brand, make a name for yourself. You don\u2019t have a huge budget. And I wish there was a better answer for this, but you have to come through and do what you say you\u2019re going to do. When you do that enough times \u2014 both on the provider side and the client side, and I\u2019m using \u201cclient\u201d to describe HCOs \u2014 that\u2019s what starts momentum.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then: being able to keep those retained earnings in the company to help fuel the growth. Because you have two choices. You can be a lifestyle organization or you can be a growth organization. You can\u2019t be both. So if you want to drive a Ferrari after being in business for two years, your company\u2019s never going to grow. Luckily, I was around people \u2014 obviously at Onyx, but especially at All Star \u2014 where we embraced that early on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And luckily for me \u2014 I want to make sure to give him his due, too \u2014 Keith, my business partner, had a long history in locum tenens as well. He was one of the top billers for years. So when we got that enterprise moving, that was like pouring gasoline on a fire. To be honest \u2014 and obviously I\u2019m biased \u2014 I would pick myself, Keith, and Craig up against anybody building a company from the ground up. It was the perfect team for me. I couldn\u2019t have done it on my own by any stretch, and our executive team then grew from there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So in the beginning, it\u2019s just brute force: creating a brand, getting some momentum, getting profitable, and then being willing to reinvest that into not only more placements, but also knowing what you don\u2019t know. There are textbooks written on companies that outgrow themselves. They all want to do this hockey stick, but they don\u2019t realize \u2014 in staffing in particular \u2014 as soon as you hit that increase, that\u2019s the hockey stick, you better have the funding in place to be able to pay the doctors. Because I\u2019ll tell you what: the first time you miss a couple of those payments, all that goodwill you built up with these providers \u2014 they don\u2019t want to work for an organization that delays their pay a day or two days or three days. They\u2019re never coming back. So you have to be prepared to meet those challenges head-on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (17:31):<\/strong> Interesting. So tell me a little about All Star. Is it only focused on locums, or does it do perm as well? Are you across the country? What\u2019s your employee strength? Tell me a little bit about All Star.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (17:45):<\/strong> Of course. As I mentioned a little earlier, All Star was a perm firm prior to my arrival \u2014 they were very, very successful. They didn\u2019t do retained, but they did contingency perm work. And then we developed locum tenens, in part due to my arrival, though obviously there was expertise there outside of my own. We now service all 50 states. The last number I saw was about 340 internal employees \u2014 that\u2019s everybody from the people that call the providers, to the people that handle the logistics, to the financial end, to the travel end.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What the average person doesn\u2019t necessarily understand when they hear about the industry for the first time is the amount of complexity in one single placement. Whether it\u2019s: \u201cHey, I need somebody in North Dakota.\u201d \u201cWell, I don\u2019t have a license in North Dakota.\u201d Well, we have a licensing team. Now they need to get credentialed \u2014 they get credentialed. \u201cI\u2019m only going to go there if my travel is under X amount of hours.\u201d Well, we have a travel department. The number of people that have to contribute to make one single placement happen \u2014 that collaboration takes the right leaders to make it happen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We\u2019re now, I think, in the top six or seven \u2014 I haven\u2019t seen the updated SIA numbers. But we started from zero and got to that level. I\u2019m very proud of what the team\u2019s been able to accomplish.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (19:16):<\/strong> Excellent. That\u2019s about \u2014 you\u2019re thirteen years into this company, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (19:20):<\/strong> Yep.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (19:20):<\/strong> So, I was charmed when I came to Colorado for the NALTO fly-in \u2014 unfortunately I couldn\u2019t attend the San Antonio one. But tell me about NALTO. I was completely blown away by the organization.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (19:36):<\/strong> Well, that\u2019s very kind, and I look forward to seeing you in Park City, Utah in September.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (19:40):<\/strong> I\u2019m hoping to come as well \u2014 fingers crossed, I should be there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (19:43):<\/strong> Awesome. I appreciate the kind words. My involvement with NALTO started, I\u2019m going to say, about 15 years ago \u2014 when I was already in Colorado. I obviously knew what NALTO was, but I wasn\u2019t really in a position to donate time, nor did I have the expertise to lend at that point. So I started getting involved in the ethics committee, as well as the legislative committee and the membership committee.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Number one, I wanted good, solid relationships \u2014 even though they\u2019re competing agencies, I always liked having good relationships. If there was ever a dispute about a placement or something that needed to be worked out, I always had a face and a name and a number I could dial. Sometimes what happens to firms that are outside NALTO is they draw a line in the sand and say, \u201cWell, if you don\u2019t go through us, you\u2019re not going.\u201d And then \u2014 remember what I talked about with the solution where everybody wins? Well, that\u2019s the opposite. Everybody loses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (20:43):<\/strong> One second, for the listeners \u2014 NALTO stands for the National Association of Locum Tenens Organizations, right? So that\u2019s what it is. Go ahead, Matt.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (20:54):<\/strong> Yes. So I got involved, and I wanted solid relationships with my competitors. But our industry is so critical \u2014 I mentioned the over 50,000 physicians alone, but you\u2019re now talking about over a million patient interactions a year performed by locum tenens physicians alone, not to mention NPs, PAs, CRNAs. This is a huge industry with such tremendous societal impact. I looked at it as a way to give back. I said, if I can help move the industry along, help educate about it, help protect it \u2014 whatever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I started with my involvement in committees, and then I was asked to run for the board. I remember talking with some colleagues and saying, \u201cI don\u2019t know if you want me on there \u2014 because if this hasn\u2019t come across, I\u2019m originally from Boston. I say what I mean and do what I say.\u201d I ran for the board and was elected, and contributed where it was needed. Then I was elected president of the organization \u2014 president-elect \u2014 four or five years ago, and I\u2019ve now served almost three years. I\u2019m passing the torch in Park City to the very talented Jarin Dana from Fusion \u2014 another fantastic human being, and they run a great organization out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Really, what I wanted to do in particular when I joined the board \u2014 and especially when I got into leadership \u2014 was to make NALTO known on the national stage, because we had not done that prior. It just so happens that things like the PRO Act came up for debate in the House and Senate when President Biden was elected. Whatever your opinions on labor are \u2014 your opinions on whether Uber or Lyft drivers should be employees or 1099s \u2014 your listeners, I know you\u2019ve heard us talk about AB5 in California, which came from the Dynamex case, which basically says everybody\u2019s an employee until proven otherwise. That\u2019s maybe all fine and good for Uber and Lyft and Instacart, and we could certainly argue the merits of that. But one thing we do know for sure is that the vast majority of providers in our space \u2014 these physicians, and let\u2019s bump in NPs, PAs, CRNAs; they provide excellent work as well \u2014 if they were forced to become W-2s for agencies like ours, that number would drastically be cut in half, even more than that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So we sprang into action. We\u2019ve teamed up with a lobbying firm in DC \u2014 we are back on Capitol Hill later this month. It was important for me, as time has gone on, to protect the industry that has not only allowed me to earn a living, but to make an impact. What I want to do is make sure the story of locum tenens is being told on the national stage. There is no better goal or pursuit for NALTO than that. If I could look back on the wonderful work this board has done, what I\u2019m particularly proud of is: we now have 30 out of the 50 members of our Senate that we can call up, and they know what locums is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (24:11):<\/strong> Wow. That\u2019s huge progress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (24:14):<\/strong> They know what it is. They know what we\u2019re trying to do. They\u2019re on board, but they\u2019re waiting for the right time to strike \u2014 and I\u2019ll expand on that in a minute. We even had a bill that we helped write get introduced in the last Congress in the House of Representatives, and we\u2019re looking to build on that bill and that progress in this Congress. We\u2019ve made tremendous progress. There\u2019s a long way to go, but that\u2019s really where we wanted to make an impact.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (24:42):<\/strong> That\u2019s interesting. So \u2014 you were talking about locum tenens staying 1099 rather than W-2, which is better for all. Are the doctors in line with this as well? Do you have the doctors\u2019 commitment for this bill?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (24:58):<\/strong> Yes. Part of our outreach and coalition building has been to speak to hospital associations on the hospital side, and we have a number of them willing to support our bill, which is great. On the physician-provider side, we actually have a group of physicians coming with us to DC this time around, so we will have representation \u2014 because we get that question a lot; it\u2019s a good question: \u201cWhy would the providers care?\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>They do. Because they know \u2014 with all due respect, I don\u2019t have the qualifications to evaluate a physician\u2019s performance and act like they\u2019re an employee of our agency. I don\u2019t have the expertise. They know it, I know it, I\u2019m comfortable with it. They have the expertise. They choose what contracts they accept and decline. They choose their rate; they negotiate that. All the power is in their hands, and that\u2019s where it should be. We want to make sure that status quo continues in the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (25:58):<\/strong> Fantastic. This is exciting, Matt \u2014 just talking to you, I\u2019m getting so much knowledge coming at me. Look at you, you\u2019re the Energizer Bunny right there. And I did say charming \u2014 you don\u2019t know why, but you\u2019re a charming young man. So, moving a little bit into the small business side, having talked about All Star, your career, and how NALTO has come into your life: I want to talk about small business and your thought process there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Take my company, for example \u2014 Protean Med. It\u2019s pretty much a small organization, and I definitely have a lot of challenges breaking into the space because there are big wigs there. In spite of COVID, I have made some progress as well. So what can we do to leverage the resources and support provided by NALTO to make ourselves more successful and stay competitive in the industry?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (26:54):<\/strong> It\u2019s a great question. And I applaud the progress that you\u2019ve made. The good thing about the industry is \u2014 and we get some visibility of this because NALTO receives probably two to four applications a month, or every 45 days \u2014 that tells me the industry is growing and you have new players coming into it. A lot of them are physician-owned small businesses, women-owned small businesses, veteran-owned small businesses. We welcome all of those players, because we know the massive job that\u2019s going to need to be done as we approach the 110,000 to 140,000 physicians we\u2019re going to be short by 2035, 2040.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I wish NALTO had the resources it has now when I started my career in Denver. If I were a startup organization today, I would apply to NALTO right away. We have an onboarding process, as you well know, to say: even though you\u2019re new, we want to take you in, we want to share what we know. Because the last thing the locum tenens industry needs is an outlier out there W-2ing people, or not getting the proper malpractice, and stepping on landmines all over the place. It\u2019d be a bad look for the industry as a whole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, what we try to do \u2014 as an example: let\u2019s say as a small organization you don\u2019t have a robust training and development section of your organization. NALTO provides that. We have a seminar once a month, free for NALTO members, where you can get real training \u2014 leadership training, sales training, whatever the case may be \u2014 from people that know the industry. These aren\u2019t people that yesterday were selling washing machines. They know locums; they know how to sell locums. We get hundreds of people signed up every month. So here are these smaller organizations that say: instead of spending $90,000 a year, $70,000, whatever the number is, on a director of training and development, I already have that because I\u2019m paying my dues to NALTO, and I get these things automatically for free.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The lobbying I just mentioned speaks for itself \u2014 here\u2019s this group out there protecting my interests. You also have risk management: what are the landmines I can avoid when talking about malpractice for one of my providers? What are some of the things I should be doing from a credentialing or licensing standpoint? These are huge deals, and they are potential landmines. For a new company getting into this \u2014 for the dues and fees that are paid, you\u2019ll make 50, 100 times what you would be paying, say, a consultant to tell you the same things. And by the way, you get to go to the conferences and forge these relationships \u2014 which is one of the reasons we\u2019re talking now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (29:51):<\/strong> Absolutely \u2014 I tend to agree.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (29:54):<\/strong> I enjoyed meeting you guys when you were out there, and I want you to do well. Because you\u2019re going to reflect locums \u2014 the industry as a whole \u2014 in a positive light. That\u2019s what I want, not only as president of NALTO, but as a managing partner and board member at All Star. I want people doing locums the right way. I want the industry to continue to thrive. Someone out there going rogue and doing things in an unethical manner doesn\u2019t help anybody.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (30:22):<\/strong> I agree. We also need someone to handhold us, which is something NALTO does. That\u2019s why I said I was blown away \u2014 everyone is welcoming, I could reach out to so many people, and advice was given without hesitation. I was introduced to people. It\u2019s a tough industry for all, but at least I have people I can connect to. But do you have any kind of mentoring program within NALTO, where you connect a young entrepreneur with a veteran in the industry \u2014 kind of like a buddy system?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (31:04):<\/strong> Funny you bring that up, because our membership committee is always looking to improve not only the welcoming of the onboarding process, but what happens after that. One of the things we\u2019ve done is assign somebody from our membership committee or our board of directors, depending on how many are needed \u2014 for a NALTO firm that\u2019s coming to the conference for the first time, or the first time this year, or that hasn\u2019t come in a couple of years \u2014 because every situation is different; sometimes the dates don\u2019t match up correctly, et cetera.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now, is there a formal mentorship program? That\u2019s an interesting idea, and I\u2019d love to take that to the board and the membership committee. I think these things in the past have almost happened organically \u2014 and that\u2019s not to say we shouldn\u2019t formalize it. I get questions all the time, and I certainly don\u2019t have all the answers either. Some of the largest companies in the country \u2014 I\u2019ll exchange emails with them: \u201cWhat do you think about what\u2019s going on in Kentucky with their state legislation?\u201d These are companies much larger than mine, and yet we\u2019re all collaborating on these ideas. So I guess the mentorship never stops; it keeps going.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>What I would recommend to folks that have just joined for the first time: get involved with a committee that interests you. We all meet once a month, and you get to know these folks \u2014 that just happens over time. But that being said, it\u2019s an interesting idea, and outside of what I already mentioned about mentoring people through their membership process and their first conference, I think we could certainly expand on that. It\u2019s a good point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (32:50):<\/strong> Thank you. So \u2014 you talked about landmines just now, when you were mentioning new organizations. Can you give some examples of landmines that people have stepped onto that actually brought them down, and things they can avoid? A small organization like mine \u2014 what are the landmines I should be looking out for, and how can I avoid them?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (33:15):<\/strong> Yeah, it\u2019s a great question. Somebody gave a TED talk once, I think, on $100,000 mistakes \u2014 that\u2019s like our example of what we\u2019re doing right now. Sometimes it can be more than $100,000. Some things we go over at NALTO in pretty granular detail:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Don\u2019t sign bad contracts. Sometimes it is better to walk away from a bad contract than sign things that give you this massive cloud of liability that will follow you for a number of years \u2014 whether that\u2019s indemnification language or certain types of insurance requirements that really only belong in the W-2 staffing world. We\u2019ve seen a lot of that. I think the reason for that in particular is a lot of MSP\/VMS players that have been in the nursing world and other staffing verticals have started to come in. There\u2019s nothing wrong with that \u2014 we welcome it \u2014 but I think they cookie-cuttered their agreements and made locums like nursing, or locums like light industrial, or locums like IT. And they\u2019re completely different types of placements, both in complexity and, in my opinion, importance too. IT professionals are needed and their work is very much appreciated, but I think we would agree that if you\u2019re taken in an ambulance to a facility, a doctor being there is probably a little bit more important, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you have contractual issues, like I just mentioned. You certainly have the landmine of physicians sometimes saying, \u201cI\u2019ll carry my own malpractice.\u201d Bad idea \u2014 never do it. Because remember, in your client contracts, you are warranting that they are carrying it. How do you know if they pay their bill? I\u2019m not saying they wouldn\u2019t, but there\u2019s no way you\u2019re going to follow up on that. What about tail coverage? Are you sure they\u2019re going to cover that? Because as you well know, the statute of limitations for an OBGYN case can be 17 years. So you\u2019re telling me you\u2019re going to follow up with them for the next 13 years to make sure they renewed their med mal and paid their tail? No. That\u2019s another example of this liability. Just think about it: let\u2019s say an OBGYN goes to work for your firm. You trust that person to procure their own med mal. And then all of a sudden they don\u2019t, and a lawsuit comes in. Guess who\u2019s named? You are. And you will be coming out of pocket for that, because you have no face sheet \u2014 you have no proof that you covered yourself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The last one I\u2019ll use: when a company is going from small to medium and medium to large, if you\u2019re not prepared for that growth and the amount of funds you will need to cover not only provider payroll, but your internal payroll. And look \u2014 you asked about things that have changed in the last 20 years: it\u2019s more expensive to book a day now than it\u2019s ever been. You have a lot of different costs and regulatory concerns. You have VMS fees. The margins have tightened a little bit. We all deal with it, but you don\u2019t want to cut corners and leave yourself open liability \u2014 a landmine you could step on. So make sure you have your funding in place for when your company does grow. Look at your projections and say: if and when we hit this BHAG, this goal, what does my company look like then? And what am I going to need to have in place before that happens? Because you can be a victim of your own success pretty easily.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (36:43):<\/strong> I totally agree with you. So, coming back to small industry entrepreneurs \u2014 what are the top three qualities you think an entrepreneur should have to be successful in this space?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (36:56):<\/strong> This may be a little clich\u00e9, but persistence. As I explained, any entrepreneur has to be a salesperson, in my opinion. That doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019ll be cold-calling hospitals and doctors for 20 years, but that said \u2014 can you get in front of a potential provider or a potential client and sell your services, and sell them well? Can you negotiate well, meaning make the deal happen? I always chuckle when one of our consultants books their first days, and I\u2019ll be the first to applaud that \u2014 I\u2019m like, congratulations, now your work just begins.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (37:34):<\/strong> That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (37:36):<\/strong> There are so many steps that have to be done for you to have a successful placement. So: persistence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Then, you have to have empathy. You have to always picture yourself in someone else\u2019s shoes. How can I massage this deal to make sense \u2014 and let\u2019s look in the mirror: it\u2019s got to make sense for you if you\u2019re a recruiter, or a consultant, or a client rep, or a leader, whatever the case may be. But it has to make sense for the provider, and it has to make sense for the facility. Otherwise, someone\u2019s going to be unhappy, and the person\u2019s never going to be booked again. So can you have empathy and be persistent?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then \u2014 I don\u2019t know if this is the best way to say this \u2014 you have to be vulnerable. What I mean by that is you have to build vulnerability-based trust with your people, to say: I\u2019m here in the trenches with you. This is what I\u2019ve been through to help build this business. It\u2019s kind of like, come with me, everybody. There\u2019s that old drawing about the difference between a boss and a leader: the boss is the guy whipping the stagecoach, and the leader is the one out front going, \u201cAll right, let\u2019s go,\u201d and pulling it. Two different types of people. The 1980s-90s celebrated boss charging through the wall isn\u2019t something that\u2019s accepted anymore \u2014 and we could argue the merits of the good and the bad of that \u2014 but no one\u2019s going to follow somebody who is just an order-giver. Have you built up that trust with your people? And the best way to build that, in my opinion, is to go up there and say: hey, I\u2019ve screwed up too. This is where I\u2019ve made my mistakes. And if I don\u2019t know the answer, I will tell you I don\u2019t know the answer. Because I\u2019ve got news for you: if you go out there and pretend you know the answer, there are enough people in any size audience to know that you\u2019re full of it. They\u2019ll figure it out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (39:36):<\/strong> Yeah. They can see through the BS, for sure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (39:38):<\/strong> A hundred percent. There are probably more, but those are the three that popped into my mind right away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (39:43):<\/strong> Thank you. I think you nailed it \u2014 those three seem to be the common traits that take a person forward or backward, depending on what they have. Has there been any aha moment in your life? Something that\u2019s been like, \u201cWow, this is it\u201d?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (40:01):<\/strong> It\u2019s funny, because when you\u2019re part of startups in particular, you\u2019re so busy putting out fires and getting to the next goal. I admit this too \u2014 and I know this isn\u2019t a therapy session, though it\u2019s going to sound like it \u2014 I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve spent enough time to smell the proverbial roses. It\u2019s like the saying: you\u2019ll sleep when you\u2019re dead. I probably should sleep more, too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But you have these landmark things that happen in the development of an organization, when you go from infancy to adolescence, and adolescence to adulthood. I remember when we moved from a small office that we leased, and we purchased an office building. We got to be like 80 employees \u2014 which to us was, can you believe we\u2019re 80? And here we are at probably almost 380 now. I remember sitting there \u2014 and again, it\u2019s certainly not like Wall Street, but we used to buy all used office furniture and really put everything we had back into the business. And yet here we were, and we knew that in order to be competitive and attract employees, we needed a nicer space. So we invested the money and we built this space. And it was like \u2014 yeah, I think we\u2019re getting there. But never, ever did I say, \u201cWe\u2019ve made it.\u201d I don\u2019t think I ever will. And that\u2019s probably not a healthy thing, but\u2014<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (41:35):<\/strong> Yeah, I was about to say \u2014 is that good or bad?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (41:38):<\/strong> You know, I don\u2019t know. I\u2019ve just been very lucky and very blessed to work with a great group of people \u2014 both at All Star, and obviously that\u2019s the most important thing that I do, but even my time with NALTO. I\u2019ve got to be honest with you: when I step down in September, that\u2019s going to be strange.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (41:57):<\/strong> I\u2019m sure you\u2019re going to find a hundred different things to do, knowing you. Next thing you know, you may have something else on your plate, and I\u2019ll be like, \u201cWow, Matt \u2014 do you ever stop?\u201d That\u2019s what I\u2019m going to ask you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (42:08):<\/strong> That\u2019s kind of you to say. I appreciate it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (42:10):<\/strong> I have a very interesting question about mergers and acquisitions. It\u2019s very common in the industry \u2014 you see it increasingly happening. How do you see M&amp;A activity impacting the locum tenens sector specifically?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (42:29):<\/strong> Well, a lot of it\u2019s already happened. There are not many at, call it, $75\u201380 million and above. You almost have this gap: you have a lot of zero-to-$30-million companies, then a massive gap in that middle ground, and then you have the top dogs that have done a lot of the acquiring.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That being said, during COVID things slowed down a little bit from an M&amp;A perspective, and rightfully so. According to the conversations I\u2019ve had through NALTO and All Star, there\u2019s a heavy appetite from both private equity and strategic buyers to come in and acquire profitable locum firms with good cultures and great P&amp;Ls, et cetera. I don\u2019t see that slowing down anytime soon. This is the Rolls-Royce of staffing. What I mean by that is physicians not only have tremendous societal impact \u2014 they are also revenue-producing folks for hospitals.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I\u2019m always very careful to say it like this: you cannot run a well-functioning hospital without tremendous nurses. Nursing, through the pandemic, rightfully got their due \u2014 they\u2019re part of the heroes of healthcare, no question. But from a P&amp;L standpoint, providers \u2014 physicians in particular \u2014 are the folks that keep the doors open from a revenue-producing standpoint. That\u2019s why they command a premium, and that\u2019s why, from a staffing standpoint, we command a premium. The supply-and-demand issue is just way off. And that\u2019s only going to get worse, because not only is the supply of physicians not where it needs to be, but you have aging baby boomers, and you have \u2014 unfortunately \u2014 not the healthiest population. It was one of the reasons the United States struggled with COVID more than some other countries: in comparison, we\u2019re not as healthy. We have a bigger obesity issue in this country than in other parts of the world.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you have a number of private equity folks and strategics that will continue to look to acquire those firms. I don\u2019t see it slowing down anytime soon. I think this industry \u2014 with the current structure, current margins, current business landscape \u2014 has a runway for at least the next decade and a half, or more. Which is also one of the reasons, by the way, that we\u2019re very passionate about keeping these folks as 1099s. Because if all of a sudden they all became W-2s, the industry would change like that, overnight. Of course we would pivot \u2014 our firms would pivot \u2014 but the cost would go up for the hospitals, and there\u2019d be fewer folks to choose from. And who wins there? Nobody wins.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (45:31):<\/strong> Nobody wins, right. So do you think technology like AI, or all the new software coming in, is going to impact the traditional way of recruiting in this industry?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (45:47):<\/strong> Yeah, I think it\u2019s going to impact \u2014 it\u2019s just like anything else. The first time you jump on ChatGPT and you talk about AI, your first inclination \u2014 it\u2019s kind of like the Ford assembly line the first time they had a robot build something. It\u2019s certainly a disruptor. But at the end of the day, I think the firms that learn to use it in the most effective way will really benefit from it, and those who choose to ignore it will face those consequences.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>From a physician standpoint, for example \u2014 AI is designed to pick up patterns. I\u2019m not an expert in it, but I know enough to be dangerous. Physician care will always be physician care. I think we\u2019re a long way away from a robot walking down the hall providing patient care \u2014 that\u2019s not what AI is. But what I will say: take radiology, for example. When they\u2019re looking at a scan, could AI be taught, under the supervision of a radiologist, how to detect patterns better and maybe diagnose cancer earlier, something like that? I know that\u2019s been discussed a lot; that seems to be a place it could go relatively quickly. And there\u2019s a massive shortage of radiologists, so maybe that\u2019s a good thing \u2014 and then some of those folks could repurpose to other specialties, just as an example. So I think it\u2019s a reallocation more than something we should fear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In terms of the business as a whole \u2014 could AI help write emails to help us recruit people? I guess. But I still think \u2014 and I\u2019m old-fashioned \u2014 one of the greatest joys of me being in this industry is the lifelong friendships I\u2019ve had with clients and providers. The people I recruited from original cold calls \u2014 I\u2019ve been to their weddings. I\u2019ve had beers with them. I\u2019ve been to conferences with them. I\u2019ve gone into business with them. It\u2019s just one of those things where I don\u2019t think anything will ever substitute the human interaction piece. Some of the busywork could be done by AI, but I don\u2019t see it as a massive disruptor for what we do every day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (47:52):<\/strong> Interesting. So, is there anything you want to use as a concluding message to the audience? Because I know you have a lot to say \u2014 you have this huge legislation with NALTO, and so much experience in the field.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Matt Young (48:14):<\/strong> Yes. Whether you\u2019re a NALTO member, a physician, or a healthcare organization: like it or not, with the supply-and-demand issue, locum tenens will be a thing. I think over 90% of HCOs use locum tenens. As I mentioned, it\u2019s over 50,000 physicians alone \u2014 never mind NPs, PAs, and CRNAs. We need these folks to continue to be out there, in particular in rural and underserved areas, providing care. We want to protect that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u201cHow do I get involved?\u201d I\u2019m so happy you asked. If you go to www.nalto.org\/action, it literally takes 30 seconds. You plug in your information and your address, and it will automatically send emails that say: we care about these folks. We know they\u2019re providing care. Let\u2019s keep the status quo. Do whatever you want with the Uber and Lyft drivers \u2014 we\u2019re not making any judgments about that. But we want to make sure that, God forbid, if there\u2019s an accident, or someone in my family is in a rural area and needs care, that someone from your firm, my firm, any one of the NALTO firms will be able to provide that care. Because without that, we\u2019re talking about the difference between life and death here. We want to protect the industry, protect the ability for these providers to continue to provide this care nationwide.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I welcome everybody to go to that website. Reach out to me on LinkedIn, reach out to me via email \u2014 I\u2019m on the NALTO website. I\u2019m happy to take you through it. We need as many people involved as possible, because one thing I have learned going through this process on Capitol Hill: they all love the idea, but they don\u2019t necessarily want to be first. What that means is we need three or four or five people from different parts of the country \u2014 Democrat and Republican \u2014 to come together, and then this thing can really get moving.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The last thing I\u2019ll say: there are a lot of things that are partisan. I am proud to say that H.R. 7881 was supported on a bipartisan basis by both Democrats and Republicans, which is a rarity in this polarizing time. So if you could reach out to your representatives, it would be greatly appreciated. We\u2019d love your support.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rajee Hari (50:22):<\/strong> Thank you so much, Matt. That was great \u2014 I really appreciate your time. This one hour just flew by. I asked for 20 minutes, I\u2019m so sorry \u2014 we spoke for an hour, and as you said, I could talk to you for more than an hour as well. But I know you have another meeting to go to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks for listening, everyone. Thank you, Matt, for being on the show \u2014 I appreciate it. Don\u2019t forget to subscribe to Protean Pulse. We are on Spotify as well \u2014 you can search for Protean Pulse \u2014 and remember to leave us your feedback. I will see you in the next episode. Don\u2019t miss the beat!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Matt Young was supposed to be a lawyer. A pre-law political science and criminology student in western Massachusetts, he had a talented attorney for a brother, an acceptance into the police academy, and a year to kill before it started. 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